Absolut-ly Overblown

Recently Absolut has found themselves in the midst of an uproar about their new Reconquista ad.  The ad, pictured here,  created by  Teran/TBWA in Mexico City, was designed to appeal to the Mexican consumers specifically without any ties to the current election and the much debated issue of immigration reform. Absolut said the ad was intended to recall "a time which the population of Mexico might feel was more ideal."

Conservative columnist Michelle Malkin posted the ad on her site while and hundreds of people have voiced their own ban on Absolut.  One reader had the following comment:

Absolut -

I run a bar in Pt. Richmond, California - where the Kaiser Liberty Ships were built during WWII. After seeing your ad Campaign where you show a western map of the United States in which California is part of Mexico again, I’ve decided to do the following…

1) Never carry Absolut. Ever.
2) Lower the price of Ketel One vodka to $2 a shot indefinitely to build loyalty.
3) Print a copy of your ad and put it above the Ketel One drink special.
4) Tell all my friends and family what Absolut thinks of the United States of America and our right to enforce border laws.

I am on the front line of illegal immigration and its effects. Where are you? Oh yes, Sweden.
Good riddance.

Sincerely,

Matthew Rogers
Pt. Richmond, Ca.

My take on this is that people are just itching this political season to find anything they can jump on to point the finger at someone else.  Clearly this ad wasn't a power play to infiltrate American politics and insinuate that Mexican borders should include Texas and all of the western states.  Even if Teran/TBWA and Absolut were completely malicious in their intent, how are so many people offended by this ad?  Mexico is as much a threat to the United States as MC Hammer is likely to have a comeback. In the end, Absolut has to love all the press they've received off the ad even if some nuts are up in arms. - John Herrington

Comments

[Wingnut]

Good old USA... Sigh. I think the ad is great... This is only a problem because the loudest border law folk are the most racist easy to offend group I have ever had to be around... Glad I no longer have to be. .

[Tony Chimento]

A few thoughts. First, I thought Hammer was making a comeback. Second, I bet the people of Mexico will begin "absorbing" more Absolut now that it looks like their borders are swelling. Third, with all the anti-American sentiment around the world, I am guessing that only America will have a problem with that ad...remember the Alamo.

[Ryan Karpeles]

"How are so many people offended by this ad?"

Because illegal immigration is a major problem in the US. The estimated 15 - 20 million illegal aliens in this country cost US taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars a year.

People are offended because borders, language and culture still mean something to them. It's a hairy issue, but that's why it's causing a stir.

And the best solution isn't to sweep these things under the rug and tell people they're racist for taking offense. It's to approach the problem with compassion, logic and fairness.

[Gannon Beck]

"Because illegal immigration is a major problem in the US. The estimated 15 - 20 million illegal aliens in this country cost US taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars a year."

What's the source on this?

Contrary to popular belief many illegal immigrants pay taxes. They have to get false papers to get employment. Once employed the money comes out automatically and goes to the government. Since the social security number is not theirs, they can't file for a tax refund. So some illegal immigrants pay more taxes than the rest of us.

I agree that it's a complicated issue.

[Cam Beck]

About 10% of Mexican population is living illegally in this country. That is a problem that results in a net loss of revenue for the U.S., even including the "taxes" they pay. (People in the lower income brackets don't pay income taxes anyway. Look it up.)

However, I agree with John that people are always looking for a reason to be offended. This ad wasn't meant to be a political statement.

On the other hand, companies have to be cognizant of the real hot buttons that do exist, rational or not, and decide if that is a space they want to play in.

If it is, then they have to take the consequences. The marketers don't get to decide what issues will offend people.

I'd have less of a problem with it if they were making a statement than if it were just the result of incompetence - not being aware of the real situation that has people on both sides very upset.

[Gannon Beck]

"(People in the lower income brackets don't pay income taxes anyway. Look it up.)"

Comes out automatically. Social security, for instance, is about 7.5% from the employee and 7.5% from the employer. Look it up yourself.

[Cam Beck]

#1 - That's payroll taxes. Though it comes directly from paychecks (if they're being paid above the table), it's not considered income taxes.

#2 - Still doesn't change the fact that it's a net loss.

[Gannon Beck]

"#1 - That's payroll taxes. Though it comes directly from paychecks (if they're being paid above the table), it's not considered income taxes."

My understanding is that income taxes are taken out of the payroll and then you get to file for income taxes based on what was taken out. Am I missing something on this? The employer takes the taxes out automatically, and then the employee cannot file a return to get any of that money back, because the social security being used number isn't his or hers.

And how do you know who is being paid above table and who is being paid below table? Are there reliable statistics on this? Employers cannot legally question, based on race, the validity of papers presented by a job candidate if the papers look authentic at face value because of discrimination laws. Employers can't profile.

My point is that I don't think anyone really understands the true economics of this. Numbers that are out there are likely to be unreliable, because so much of it is obstructed from view. People can't even agree on how many illegal immigrants are in the United States. Floating statistics out there that are unreliable is irresponsible. I don't think the entire debate is racially motivated but at the very least the issue has given the racist a place to hang his hat. For that reason alone we should be very weary of the information out there.

[Cam Beck]

No statistics -- even those who say it isn't bad -- claim an influx of less than 10 million illegals. It goes as high as 20 million, but it's hard to determine definitively, since they come and go by season.

It's a lot. Even those who say it isn't bad don't claim it doesn't cost us money. It very clearly does. And if you want the links, they're freely available through all sorts of think tanks.

The net loss is very real. That's not statistics. We have hard costs on what is going out via social programs, and we know the dilemma of emergency rooms.

It isn't going away because we choose to not believe it.

Also - FYI. "Income Taxes" and "Payroll Taxes" are just legal definitions. One can be refunded, and the other cannot. In fact, income taxes also need not rely on refunds to be negated. Just look at a W-4 form and a Circular E (I think that last one is right) and see how much you can claim as being exempt from taxation (does not apply to payroll taxes - FICA).

[Cory P]

John, I agree with you most of the time, but I disagree to the part about people itching for a political fight. I think what people are itching for is a catalyst and a stage for them to voice there feelings and frustrations about immigration. The fairly quite majority is terrified that the poorest, least educated and most likely to drain the system Mexicans are poring in ILLEGALLY to the USA. Not that we aren't sympethetic to there plight, but we have our own poor and undereducated to help already. If Mexico was sending its best and brightest none of us would bat an eye. American tax payers have footed the bill for tons of Mexicans. Instead of appreciation we are made to feel racist for seeing that the system is going to collapse and leave God only knows what in its wake.

Besides if those were the borders today, they would have to go so much further to get out of Mexico and into the US.

I agree that the Ad may not have been intended to offend. But I won't judge anyone that took great offense. If the tables were turned there wouldn't even be a debate. Everyone would be offended.

I prefer Grey Goose anyways

[Gannon Beck]

"Also - FYI. "Income Taxes" and "Payroll Taxes" are just legal definitions. One can be refunded, and the other cannot."

That was my initial point. They can't be refunded to illegal immigrants who are paying taxes. So they pay more taxes than they would if they were a citizen.

You seem so sure it's costing us money. Maybe some are and some aren't. The overall cost is hard to determine which was another point. Everyone fixes on costs, but what about the benefits? Do they outweigh the perceived costs?

Too often illegal immigrants are stereotyped into freeloaders who are gaming the system. This has not been my experience. As an example, I'll share a story with you.

A few years ago I was on my way to Quantico taking a buddy to the base. The road we were on, route 619, is has a lot of sharp turns. As we got close to the base we came upon an accident. A truck carrying non English speaking Hispanics had run off the road. Some of the men were seriously hurt. One was too hurt to be moved, but most of them had cuts and abrasions. These guys were construction day workers, coming back from working on the National Museum for the Marine Corps which was just being built around the corner.

The Marine I was with spoke fluent Spanish so he went over and talked to everyone, to assess the injuries and get a handle on the situation. Most of the men, even ones with some pretty serious injuries did not want to go to the hospital because they wanted to stay off the radar. They were all afraid of the police in a way that most of us can't understand. The driver and a guy with a broken collar bone stayed to talk to the police and await the ambulance.

You could see the fear in their eyes. Fear of being deported. These weren't people trying to game the system. These were hard working people who were helping build a national monument to United States Marines.

There is a side to this many people won't seem to acknowledge. There are good people here making valuable contributions in the communities they live in. I think we're going to look back on this issue 50 years from now with a clarity that escapes us now the same way clarity escaped main stream America prior to the civil rights movement.

It will largely be a moot point by then anyway. No politician seriously thinking about deporting millions of people is likely to get elected. Since all children born in the United States will be American citizens, the dynamics of the debate will change dramatically with the next generation.

[John Herrington]

Wingnut - I know you're not talking about Texans right? right?? :)

Tony - Hammer is NOT making a comeback. Take a look at http://dancejam.com/ and you'll know why.

Ryan - Thanks for your thoughts. I just don't view it as being anything other than something along the lines of "remember the good old days" type advertising.

Gannon & Cam - I always love to see you guys duke it out. Thanks for the spirited discussion.

Cory - I can see your frustration and my intent wasn't to judge. I think for this issue you might have a point that people are looking for a venue to voice their thoughts about immigration, but on the large scale I think that we're just and easily offended society where almost anything will piss someone somewhere off.

[Cam Beck]

Gannon - You caught the first part of my point about income taxes but missed the second: Refunds aren't the only way working people, Americans or otherwise, can avoid paying taxes.

That many people here illegally may be working hard is really besides the point. As is whether they're scared to be deported.

But let's take that for a second, since that seems to be what resonates with you. What of the other hard-working people who are waiting patiently in line... and have to wait patiently longer because all of these people are bumping them out of the way? Does their frustration not count for anything, in your eyes?

Now, you mentioned that those people who were unfortunately injured weren't trying to game the system. You have no idea if that's true. In fact, that they were knowingly breaking the rules to be here and work strongly suggests otherwise.

Just because one works hard and has many admirable, desirable qualities doesn't mean he isn't trying to game the system.

And even if he isn't trying, that doesn't mean he isn't, or that the net cost of his being here isn't higher than his output.

That doesn't make them bad people undeserving of humane treatment, but it doesn't mean they should be American citizens or do what they want to thwart our laws, either.

Where were they going to be treated? Who was going to pay for it? What were they doing with their money: Spending it all in the U.S. or shipping it back to their home country to help their family (something that is admirable in its own right, but still has a net cost here).

And what of representation? Should foreigners be allowed to vote? Or should we allow admission to anyone who wants to be here just because they earnestly wish to be? In the first case, we create a volatile environment with a permanent underclass who cannot seek redress for grievances, and in the second we will have effectively eliminated our sovereignty to nothing.

Neither of those solutions is especially humane. The first one disenfranchises the immigrants, and the second punishes the citizens.

Just because the issue is complicated and heart-wrenching doesn't mean there isn't a simple solution. It isn't deportation, though. First, they'll just come back, and second, the same can be done for far less money.

It's securing the borders and removing the incentives for illegals to be illegals. The first part is simple enough, and the second can be done in a number of ways.

[Cam Beck]

And I, too, think MC Hammer is making a comeback. You wait.

[CK]

Wait, MC Hammer is an illegal alien?

Excellent post and discussion here. Truly.